Subject : DAYS OF OUR LIVES #46
Date : Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:07:47 -0600

mail-CALL - PRESERVING FORGOTTEN MEMORIES

TAPS

HITCHEW, Chester W., Jr., (Chet), SSG, 05K, Det 27, 66-68

Born: 21 June 1933, Died: 1 September 2001 at Lunenburg, Worcester County, Massachussetts

We knew the HITCHEWS in Bad Aibling, Germany and at Detachment 27 in Turkey. Chet was a soft spoken farm boy from Pennsylvania who cared about subordinates even though he had to work hard to achieve rank for himself. I would appreciate hearing from others who knew Chet Hitchew

NEAS, Timothy Spencer, EM rank and MOS unknown, but suspect that he was a Linguist.

Born: 15 March 1938. Died: May 1984, 45 year old. While in the ASA he developed a Aneurysm of some type and was given a Medical discharge. Ed Edwards article in this missive mentions that Timmy Neas was on the 196(3) Manzarali Basketball team with himself, John Obrien, Ray Bigalow, Chuck Silvernail, Timmy Neas and a few others. Edwards further says that Timmy Neas was "on Wide World of Sport almost every weekend running against the likes of Tim Ryan, the one mile record-setter." See Ed's article below for more info. The grandson, also named Tim Neas, told me that his grandfather was a darn good 5' 9" athlete and was a County Sheriff in Oklahoma and was killed in a head-on collision while chasing a drunken driver. The grandson would like to hear from those who knew his grandfather. He told me that he would go through his grandfathers 'crates' and will sort out worthwhile mementos and send them via email. His e-mail is T2K_357_2@yahoo.com

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Y'all are ASA TURKEY Friends... even though I know only a relatively few from my 66-68 days at Manzarali and Karamursel... BUT exchanging memories is why y'all are getting my missives... and I will never find any memories lacking... no matter what you write! My goal is for everyone to share their memories... I'll ALWAYS listen and SELDOM complain! Isn't that what FRIENDS are for... forever there for you, even when you're being a pain by not sending in your BIO's! BUT I give you my promise that I'll do my level best to be your FRIEND too! I'm so glad to call YOU my FRIENDS!!

Elder RC Green

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From: Edandlynn4@cs.com

Well, after reading all the info coming from every corner of the earth, I thought it about time to put my two cent in. I played on the Trick #1 football team of 62 with Walt [Dubicki], Bill and a few others I remember. What I do remember about one game was it was played in a down pour, and me doing the punting it was not a good day for me. On one play, I was in the end zone, the ball comes bouncing back to me, picking it up with no chance to punt I ran to the side line. When I looked down field it was clear with no one in sight. Then I hear Dubicki yelling cut in, cut in. Well, I cut in and got blind sided about the five yard line. Dropped the wet ball and ate dirt followed by lots of water, only to have Walt stand over me and yelling things that still make me shake today.

With a lot being said about the football and softball teams of yesteryear, why hasn't someone brought up the Championship team that we had in basketball. John Obrien, Chuck Silvernail, Timmy Neas (who was on Wide World of Sport almost every weekend running against the likes of Tim Ryan). Ray Bigalow and a few other. We were like 27 and 3 in Turkey and went to Athens and placed second. I think that we placed second might have been from coming in when the sun came up every morning, after 10 days you start to drag. In fact we only went sightseeing around Athens, when our plane had problems and we stayed an extra day. If it wasn't for that extra day in Athens we might not have seen anything.

Some things to think about:

Remember going to mid night chow and seeing the new personnel come in and go through the serving line, take their trays to the table and go looking for something to drink only to return and find the Turks had already cleaned the table.

Are the Turks trying to pick up your plate before you were finished with it and it began a tug of war?

One night while I played QC runner the CID guys from downtown came in and wanted to see one of our troops on trick three. I took them to see the young troop like at three in the morning, got him and his roomies up and the CID guys asked him about the two or three dozen shirts he had just bought at the down-town BX. Well, the troop opened up his locker and there was all the shirts in a neat row. The CID guys walked out and didn't say a word. The troop was getting ready to go home and get out and thought he needed them for his new job. Remember we did wear white shirt back then.

Well, got to go now, do with this what you want, but I just thought I would add to the collection. God bless - - - Ed Edwards, Edgewater, MD, C/C, Det 27, FE62-JL63

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From: Ted Midtaune midtaune1@llnl.gov

Phil Kelly's e-mail about his operation reminded me of my own experience that some of you may be interested in. (And I'm sure, that many of you have experienced). In his e-mail , he mentioned a 4.2

positive PSA test; my own PSA test was in the low 4's also. His concern over a 4.0 was proper, but not all cases result in a positive biopsy. In my case, the doctor took the samples (10 of them), and they all turned out negative. What a relief! However, my reason for writing this is to alleviate any concerns about the sampling technique. It was done on an out-patient basis, and I drove to and from the hospital myself. Taking the samples is not painful, merely uncomfortable, holding your knees doubled up to your chest. A camera and a snatching tool is inserted into your anus, and they proceed to take samples through skin into your prostate. As I said, uncomfortable. Please give a blood sample and have it tested for a high PSA level. There are "quite a few" false positives, but better that, than not knowing that you have a cancerous prostate. His recommendation for an annual test should be a no-brainer for anyone who was in the "top 10%" of all those who enlisted in the Army.Ted Midtaune, Livermore, CA., SP4, 05H, Det 27, 24OC62-64. [[Thanks to you and Phil Kelly for the detailed info regarding the prostate and the PSA blood test. I get a yearly PSA and 'finger' exam and so far mine have been excellent. Every other year I get a colonoscopy. That, too, is done as an out-patient, painless, procedure and is sorta unique in that you're able to watch the camera sneak its way thru your large intestines while laying on your side thinking, hey, when is it going to stop. Or that's the way it feels to me- - -gH]]

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From: g_jorgensen@hotmail.com

gh, I called today and made my reservation for Sept for my wife and myself so it looks like I'll be eating chocolate and drinking beer. I think that's a well balanced diet, solids and liquids. What more do you need. The last few days of our lives have been GREAT. I do remember Joe Hey and can still picture him in my mind (small picture). I seem to remember we were on the same trick for awhile but not when I was first at Manzarali, maybe at Det 4-4? I remember George Ingram but I believe we were on different tricks also. As a sidetrack if anyone out there is planning a trip to Alaska this year or anytime for that matter I would be happy to share my knowledge of what's there for hunting, fishing, or just playing tourista. In the meantime keep the days of our lives coming and I'll see ya in Sept.

Jorgy, Duluth, MN., SP5, 05H, Det 27 and 4-4, MY66-SE68

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From: Norman Frickey

Subj: Tackle Football at KARAMURSEL

Hi Elder...I have been reading with some interest about the great flag football. Funny no one has written (or maybe I missed it) about the "full-contact football" team of Det 4-4 in 19'70. Maybe the experience has been repressed; however, I noticed in the memory book there is a picture of that team. For some reason that escapes me now I was convinced than a good CO should allow the Army to participate in "real football" as it would be good for morale and a break from being trapped in ops. I reluctantly agreed and we drew uniforms and drew up plans for what we hoped would be a successful season. I can't recall how successful we were in the win and loss column at the conclusion of the season but I still remember one game. The picture in the memory book doesn't tell it all -- doesn't do justice the bravery of that small group. It was a small and mighty band of Army(ASA and EOD) and Navy guys who went forth to do battle on the grid iron at Karamursel. The age of some of the players tempered the tempers and helped in the strategy of the play; but we could not overcome the Air Force's cunning plan to win it all. Charlie Flight was packed with better than average players thanks to the AF assignment clerk and we knew it but we believed skill and daring could prevail. The night of the big game my three young daughters in their home-made cheerleader outfits shouted on the sideline, the army crowd was loud and shouted encouragement, and I walk up and down the sideline hoping that I had done my best in the coaching role as Army practice and prepared to play mighty Charlie Flight (it felt like Godzilla vs. the moth people). We had scouted the team and new it was going to be tough. We won the toss and I still remember the look on 2LT Adams' (Army EOD) face when he received the kick off (sort of like a deer caught in the headlights) and I can only imagine what he felt as he saw the green wave coming toward him. I think he thought de-fuzing bombs would be easier than running into the green horde. Crunch ... it was ugly. But not to be denied someone had concocted a trick play involving a sleeper who would be out of the huddle and almost out of sight. When the play was called from scrimmage -- the sleeper trotted down the sidelines, caught a pass and scored a touchdown (as it turned out the only Army touchdown). That was good and the TD lifted Army's spirits. From then on it was pretty ugly -- sort of like Bowie and the boys at the Alamo. The good news for us is that Army held the AF to less than there goal of 100 points and we denied them a shutout which they had been bragging about and that was a victory of sorts. The other good news was that my military intelligence training came in handy ... I reasoned that crunch football would not be good for my aging body ... some of the younger crowd reasoned the same following that game. The good news was that we had a good time, no one was seriously injured and the AF had something to brag about for awhile. When it came basketball time however, Det 4-4 made the AF pay for their football abuse. As I recall the roundball guys were very good and almost unbeatable. Norm Frickey, Fort Morgan, CO., Maj, CDR Det 4-4, 70-71

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From: Hagan, Rocky A (FL51)

To: 'ercgreen' ; Tom Cavanaugh ; Chuck Martin ; Bill lindenmuth (E-mail)

Cc: Norman Frickey

Subject: RE: Det 4-4's Sports Program

Good morning! We called the play the "Lonesome Pole Cat". It was one I had seen in the early 60's. It is outlawed now. The process was that all the players on the sidelines would stand up next to the line. The receiver would stand just in front of them and act as if he was part of group. Then once the ball was in play he would receive the ball and run like hell. That was the game were the (AF) quarterback played some pro football and was shooting off his mouth about the 100 points.

Dave Bugar (ourlinebacker) and I decided that we were going to put him out of the game. Each time in the huddle we renewed that vow. Finally in the third quarter we high lowed him. Dave came in for the left right between his knees and ankles and I came from the right and put a helmet in his rib cage. All I heard was this gush of air. He couldn't stand up or talk straight. He was asking for is mother or something like that when they took him away. That was a hell of a game and we had a great coach. Have a great day.

Rocky Hagan, Dunedin, FL., Det 4-4, 56-71

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From: Edandlynn4@cs.com

Well, after reading all the info coming from every corner of the earth, I thought it about time to put my two cent in. I played on the Trick #1 football team of 62 with Walt [Dubicki], Bill and a few others I remember. What I do remember about one game was it was played in a down pour, and me doing the punting it was not a good day for me. On one play, I was in the end zone, the ball comes bouncing back to me, picking it up with no chance to punt I ran to the side line. When I looked down field it was clear with no one in sight. Then I hear Dubicki yelling cut in, cut in. Well, I cut in and got blind sided about the five yard line. Dropped the wet ball and ate dirt followed by lots of water, only to have Walt stand over me and yelling things that still make me shake today.

With a lot being said about the football and softball teams of yesteryear, why hasn't someone brought up the Championship team that we had in basketball. John Obrien, Chuck Silvernail, Timmy Neas (who was on Wide World of Sport almost every weekend running against the likes of Tim Ryan). Ray Bigalow and a few other. We were like 27 and 3 in Turkey and went to Athens and placed second. I think that we placed second might have been from coming in when the sun came up every morning, after 10 days you start to drag. In fact we only went sightseeing around Athens, when our plane had problems and we stayed an extra day. If it wasn't for that extra day in Athens we might not have seen anything.

Some things to think about:

Remember going to mid night chow and seeing the new personnel come in and go through the serving line, take their trays to the table and go looking for something to drink only to return and find the Turks had already cleaned the table.

Are the Turks trying to pick up your plate before you were finished with it and it began a tug of war?

One night while I played QC runner the CID guys from downtown came in and wanted to see one of our troops on trick three. I took them to see the young troop like at three in the morning, got him and his roomies up and the CID guys asked him about the two or three dozen shirts he had just bought at the down-town BX. Well, the troop opened up his locker and there was all the shirts in a neat row. The CID guys walked out and didn't say a word. The troop was getting ready to go home and get out and thought he needed them for his new job. Remember we did wear white shirt back then.

Well, got to go now, do with this what you want, but I just thought I would add to the collection. God bless - - - Ed Edwards, Edgewater, MD, C/C, Det 27, FE62-JL63

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From: Philip W. Kelly

Re: The Gay issue at Det 27

GH,

I could add to the gay issue but choose not to. Working in the S2 office I typed up many reports for the elephant trackers or spooks that were watching our own people. However, I see no value to a discussion about peoples private sex lives, especially nearly 40 years after the fact. I was embarrassed to have known what was going on and would be embarrassed today to tell any of the stories about what I knew. Thankfully, most of my memories, including those, have so much fog and vagueness attached, I wouldn't trust my recollections anyhow. I hope you guys drop that stuff like a hot potato.

Phil Kelly HQ S2 Det 27 12-62 to 5-64

[[Phil----I appreciate your comments regarding the gay issue at Det 27, but take issue with your views that it should be locked up in S2. Do you remember what type of discharge they got or was their security clearances pulled and they were sent off to a grunt outfit?

I take it that you feel that the missives should stay away from the gay issue. I don't. By omitting them wouldn't that be called discrimination? Also, if that person was strong enough to admit his gay tendencies then, it shouldn't matter now. Should it? They chose their version of morality and denying them a slot in the missives would only perpetuate now what took place back then. Should they be treated differently now, than then? I think not. They chose their destiny. For us to forget that it happened would, in my opinion, be a disservice. I'm sure that you are aware of the don't ask, don't tell policy that exists today. In my opinion that policy compromises and does not deal with the issue - it only tries to hide it. Isn't that a flagrant attack on free speech rights?

I'm wondering if any of the gays:

a). were grandstanding and used the gay claim as a means to get out of the army:

b). were 'caught red-handed' on credible evidence,

c). were nabbed on just a suspicion that brought them out of the closet,

d).were avowed gays or

e). are deceased because of AIDS.

I doubt if it would ever happen, but what if one or more of them steps forward and says, "I used the gay issue as a means to get out of the army." Should that be printed? Already one of the vet's has reported that a Perry Thompson at Det 27 used the 'crazy syndrome' to get out of the army on a disability and then openly wrote letters back to his friends at Det 27 that he had pulled the wool over the army.

Isn't it true that the ASA wasted money training those individuals during the COLD WAR period and why should we now hide our heads in the sand and deny that so and so was a gay person at Det 27.

Isn't it true that we straight males have a natural discomfort for homosexuality? Its time to deal with this issue straight on and be done with it and I do not think that it would breed resentment and divide us if the gay facts were presented.

When I do get some info I'll try and relate it with a tough-minded grace and don't think that I will use codenames for anyone. They made their preferance years ago and besides the subsequent AIDS crisis probably has them six feet under by now. I'm not so sure that those involved would want their stories or chosen lifestyles swept under the rug.

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From: Philip W. Kelly

Subject: Re: Homosexuals at Manzarali

Elder,

I can see that you have your opinion and why. I disagree with the line of thinking and don't see that it serves any good purpose but mean spiritedness. You must realize that in today's world the stigma of being homosexual is much less than it was 40 years ago. I'm not telling you that I am all for gay rights and openly gay behavior in my neighborhood, but I am saying that these people are God's creation too, and to put the spotlight on them unless they want it there is not fair play.

When I was typing the detailed "confessions" of these guys in the S2, I was sworn to as much secrecy as you guys in the OPNS department about what you heard and saw. It was a "what you hear here, see here, do here, let it stay here" missive and that's the way I feel about it. I don't hear particulars about what went on up at OPNS as regards our enemies at the time in our discussions today from any of these guys and I don't expect to.

Why not call Major Lindgren on the phone and get his take on it. His memory is still real good? I spoke to him just before our reunion. [Please send me his #]. You could ask Charles McClevish.

Some out there are not going to agree with this, but that's their opinion. Everybody has at least one (opinion, that is). So we can agree to disagree.

In the interest of being agreeable, I will address your a, b, c, d, e in that order.

A: Possibly, but in that era, a very troubling, suicidal thing to do. A General discharge was given to all who left our command.

B: Oh, Yes

C: Questioned would be the proper term.

D: None to my knowledge

E: Never did a follow-up

I don't like the hearsay, gossip that this invites, Elder. I think we can keep this on a higher plane, that's all.

I'd like you to post my initial response, your response and this post too without editing. Let the rest of them decide if it's a topic for discussion. I think it's bathroom bull pucky, personally.

Phil Kelly, Ridgecrest, CA., SP4, HQ S2, Det 27 12-62 to 5-64

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From: Philip W. Kelly

Elder, - I am recovering my strength. I haven't returned to work yet but am going to try 1/2 days next week. Incontinence is a side effect that is a bothersome problem but not something I can't overcome with time. In the meantime, I have to wear "dipes" just like when I was a little guy. It tends to put you in your place.

Regarding the gays, I feel that some things just have to be "off limits" for casual conversation. When I think about those young guys going back to their home town after only a few months in service and having to answer the questions of their friends, mom and dad, and ultimately employers who might want to know why they got a "General" Discharge from the armed forces, I feel for them. Do you know that they give general discharges to servicemen now for alcoholism? I know you say it is their choice, but I don't think any of them thought they would be discovered in their liaisons. I may have a soft spot for them because I have kept secrets myself. You heard George Kinser stand up at our reunion and proudly tell you that he had just completed his 16th year of sobriety, a member of AA. Well, I don't tell everybody, unless the discussion comes around to it and I think it would help someone having a problem with alcohol, but I celebrated my 19th year at an AA meeting down in Bourne, MA the day the reunion broke up. It's called Alcoholics Anonymous for several reasons. There is a stigma attached to people with a drinking problem. Long after I cleaned up I found that finding good employment, filling out health questionnaires, insurance, etc. all want to know about your past. People want to put you in a box. People want to judge you by a set of standards that they have learned. I think you can see this line of thinking. Thanks for your patience. Incidentally, I applaud your work in keeping our guys together, gathering in more as time goes on, and the fellowship that a reunion brings. God Bless, Phil Kellyercgreen wrote:

Thanks Phil for the gay input. I've included our 3 emails in #46and it will probably be sent on Fri or Sat..Let's wait and see what the response w/b. Already I've gotten a response from Dave Frederick saying that he knew of a non-gay who told the authorities that he was gay in order to get away from the pressure of what, he didn't say. How are U feeling these days? Waiting to hear from U soon- - -gH

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From: Philip W. Kelly

Subject: Re: Maj Lindgren

Elder, I had a phone conversation with Maj. Lindgren prior to the reunion. Charles McClevish told me he found him after a search and gave me the phone number. He is, of course, a very old man. He is a very nice individual and I think I talked about him a little in our emails back this Summer. He has a good memory and may talk to you about lots of things that he knows about during his stay at Det 27, which was longer than any of us. He knows some history about the place, having gone there prior to the construction, etc..

As far as the gay issue goes, my take is that he won't talk, either. I wish you would, should you make contact, tell him that you spoke to me about this subject and that I deferred to him on the matter. I would feel better about the whole thing if you would.

He doesn't have email to my knowledge. His wife is still alive but also in frail health. Maybe sending him regular mail with all of our posts would be the best way to elicit his comments, I don't know.

My memories of him are very fond. He was not the typical army officer, distancing himself from all enlisted personnel. Of course, his relationship with Sgt. Tim Parsons our office manager was correct and proper, he actually loved all his men more than any other officer I ever worked for. He always had time for you, was patient and kind and had high praise for work well done. The place was a paper mill. There were three clerks in the office suite, banging out memorandums, reports, letters and the like all day long. It was my first electric typewriter when I started the job in January, 1963. My WPM jumped from 45 to 60 immediately. However, we still typed with carbon paper and like six copies of everything. What a mess if you made errors.

I asked him about Tim Parsons and he said he lost track of him some years ago. He also was a fine man. Everyone in my office group were top 10%, in my opinion.

Sorry, I don't have his street address, just City, State and phone.

Joseph Lindgren

Centreville, VA 20120

(703)631-0298

From: David Frederick

Subject: gays at Det 27

gH. I knew of only one that used the excuse that he was gay while I was at Det. 27, 64 thru 65. I wish I could remember his name. He was from Florida and helped start the Rod and Gun Club. Like I said, he used it for an excuse, told me he couldn't stand the pressure and that sounded like a good way to get his clearance pulled. Dave

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From: David Frederick DAVIDFREDERICK@peoplepc.com>

Subject: Re: Manzarali Flag Football **THE FOCK Rock, etc

gH. The canned code brought back memories of Devens, could have been a bit faster.

Msg copied hr was " vvv vvv cq cq de maddog qsa imi qsv k. Thanks for the great job you are doing Dave

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From: Clark L Bryan mix1bryan3@juno.com

RE: The Morse Code message........KAKVO?

GASP.........Y.....Y.....YOU MEAN IT WASN'T BULGARIAN? :o) mixie

In plain international Morse code it says: VVV VVV CQ CQ DE MADDOG QSA IMI QSV K

Clark Bryan, Webster, NY., SP5, 98G, Det 27 and 4-4, 67-69

[[Hey Mixie - How in the heck did U copy it? Is it possible that all along U were pretending to be listening to the WWII tank traffic from Bulgaria, but instead were learning morse code.

Such dedication or is it that you remembered it from your Boy Scout days?- - -gH]]

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From: Barbara Yerkes

Subject: Re: Karamursel Command Photo 1969

We got to Karamursel in late 1970, when the officers were Maj. Norm Frickey, Lt. Jim Moore, Lt. Bob Frank, and CWO Russ Drawdey. I don't recognize any of the fellows in this photo, though. But I'll forward it to Norm and Russ.

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From: Barbara Yerkes

Subject: The [4-4] pictures...

Hi, I'm forwarding Norm Frickey's notes on the det 4-4 command picture you sent me

--------------- Text of forwarded message ---------------

Barb ... A couple of the faces look familiar. I'm like you I'll be embarrassed if I misidentify anyone. I think one of them is Bill Morris (2nd from right). The person 2nd from left looks familiar (but blank). I'd guess far right is a Warrant Officer possibly Drawdy's predecessor as I don't recall any warrants in Operations. I think I recognize the office but I'm guessing it was the Det 4-4 Office and the Major seated is probably the Commander who proceeded me. I never met him as he had departed before I got there.

Best regards, Norm Frickey

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From: James M. Findley

Subject: Geronimo

Guys,It occured to me that I've never heard anyone mention, so maybe I'm the only one who remembers:

RADIO GERONIMO

1433 KHz

A pirate radio station with offices in London, studioes (sp) in Paris & the Xmitter on a barge in the English Channel which makes it outside the communication laws of any country! Therefore, they could do or say or play any recording they wanted ... and did!

Mike Findley

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From: James M. Findley

Elder, Please void that check. It is not necessary; I will not accept it, but thank you, anyway. I paid for my copy of the book; my big sister paid for that one. My intention, when I saw I had 2 of the things, was to send it to U or Clark; my sister came-up w/the same idea independently. It was unanimous!

As to the survey, it came to my 'puter as computer programming gibberish. We will have a more sophisticated 'puter in a coupla' months; then I'll be able to read all the stuff U guys send.

Have been contacted by Ron Anderson. One of the guys who went w/us from Devens to 4-4 & then to Phu Bai. Have told him about the reunion & UR efforts. He's interrested. Have sent him UR E-mail & street address; I will make it his responsibility to contact U, if he wishes.

When this 'puter wouldn't do the disc, other guys sent me discs; none of them worked. I'll send Ron, @ his request, one of my Xtra discs.

If I'd keep the 'puter & TV off, I'd actually read some more of that damned book!

God Bless, Mike Findley

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From: Pby43@aol.com

As I try to remember what I told you was my email address it became obvious

that I had forgoten what it really was. As you will see on the tail of this

e-mail , the correct address is Pby43@aol.com. It sort of is in the catagory

of the person who never calls his own phone and therefore does not remember

the correct number. So try the address above and see if the results are

better. Thank you for your interest. Bob Broehm, Appleton, WI., 2LT, Watch Officer,

Det 27, 61-62

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Poor Little Lady

When I went to lunch today, I noticed an old lady sitting on a park bench sobbing her eyes out. I stopped and asked her what was wrong. She said, "I have a 22 year old husband at home. He makes love to me every morning and then gets up and makes me pancakes, sausage, fresh fruit and freshly ground coffee."

I said, "Well, then why are you crying?"

She said, "He makes me homemade soup for lunch and my favorite brownies and then makes love to me for half the afternoon".

I said, "Well, why are you crying?"

She said, "For dinner he makes me a gourmet meal with wine and my favorite dessert and then makes love to me until 2:00 a.m.

I said, "Well, why in the world would you be crying?"

She said, "I can't remember where I live!"

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